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Post by Nixie on Jan 20, 2008 4:22:14 GMT -5
Check it out! Any commentary from you guys? Notice any problems I haven't caught yet? Can you actually tell that the names listed in the banner are navigation links, or do I need to make it more obvious? Note- the list of "Latest Artwork" will be shorter soon. This was a huge art dump, especially from Foxy and Alex. Also, I've created a new forum skin to match the website's theme. kiwichanstudios.com
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jan 20, 2008 6:20:12 GMT -5
Very nice looking. Not sure how to best save this. Hopefully web-page-complete captures that Roanna animated quiz. Wow, I didn't think it was possible to get much more pro looking, but this new site really was worth doing. It'll take a while to cruise through it. hanging out on my bros Ventrilo for hours has scattered my mind.
Now I recall why I don't visit him much there. It takes hour, neither efficiently yakking, nor efficiently doing anything productive.
When I follow the fan art last humans item, then keep clicking the back button till out of humans, then click on 'back to main archive', I get "Error, click here to return to main page". When I click on that, I get a brief flash of some panel, then the error message again. Still, the whole layout is rather impressive, especially those page tabs for each artist. Highlighting those names on your main page as you did was an excellent plan too.
Huh, an `08 Alice doodle - unexpected but interestingly compelling.
Jeff is getting an error on the commissions page. Oh, same error, the flipping through end of pages then trying to get back to the main page. He's practically jumping out of his seat at how skilled you are.
C had a one of Alex's Flash's freeze at 13%.
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Post by Nixie on Jan 20, 2008 14:01:22 GMT -5
Hmm. I can't do anything about his flash freezing, it may be a personal connection problem. It doesn't happen on my computer. *shrug*
Lemme check my links, here. Ah, the links back to the fan art page from the individual art pages aren't correct. *fixes them* Where did Jeff find his error?
Error Page Issues: All that's on the error page is an image linking back to the main site. It shouldn't be sending you to another 404 error.... *checks* Hmm. I've noticed that it doesn't load the image I made, either. Perhaps when it loads the 404 error page, the server assumes the 404 page is inside whatever folder you were looking in, and looks for an index.html folder there? *replaces the link to the home page and the link to the image with complete URL's*
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Post by shima on Jan 20, 2008 15:05:15 GMT -5
Damn, you did lots of changes. What I'm gonna do with you? Anyway, it looks somewhat better, I think. Less dark and more.... stable serene atmosphere. Feels like playing something, nice, a melody or a lullaby.
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Post by Nixie on Jan 20, 2008 15:39:02 GMT -5
Glad you like it. ^_^
The original layout was done with tabbed browsing in CSS and Javascript instead of Flash, but I realized later on that if I went with that path I couldn't link to individual pages like my comics page. I had to go in and make a flash versions of the same tabs, which unfortunately means I can't just edit the navigation in notepad if I want to.
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Post by AlexTHVK on Jan 20, 2008 20:38:30 GMT -5
Interesting new design. Much more versatile than the last one, I'd say. There still seem to me like there's something missing, but still, a big step forward. The pic on your avatar for the updates, what picture is that? I don't seem to find it. XD
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Post by Nixie on Jan 20, 2008 22:07:19 GMT -5
Huh? Oh, it's the coffee/tea mug picture with an edited facial expression. I've got, like, a dozen of em from evil to sobbing, including yawns and sweatdrops and joyful laughter.
What do you think is missing? Ads? Y'know, I bet sticking ads on my site would bring in a little much-needed cash.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jan 21, 2008 4:43:38 GMT -5
I really like the layout, that it's consisitent to find material from different persons, that their comission pages are similar. I'm glad you only use those vertical image stripes where they are needed, and not for instance on the 'desktops' tabs. I'm not crazy about their look, even though they were done quite well, with matching face slices. They are nearly useless for inviting someone's interest, but at least show just enough that a regular visitor can use them to recall if they've seen the image before. Come to think of it, if you really want to go all out, and you nearly have aleady, the next step would be to install mouseover floating divs of thumbnails, like Netflix and eBay do, on the slices.
The Alex Flash worked fo me too. I haven't had a chance to read your code any, but as far as web GUI techniques goes, you're way ahead of me now. I ws wondering if you did the tabs and buttons in CSS or Flash, both, what a lot of work. I'm hoping to learn from what you've done here because I'll need as nice a look for my scheduler software. Whatever I do, It'll have to be all CSS, no Flash, because everything will be loaded via xml on as needed basis, for instance, the material on the desktops tab wont load until someone clicks on that tab, or if nothing is downloading, it will background load the most likely material the person will check out next, interrupting if they choose something else instead. How did you handle tab loading. Does the site just attempt loading everything except the seperate art pages at once? That seems unlikely, because I didn't have to wait fo images, and cruised through in no particular order.
I don't think the site is really really missing anything, but it can still use some sort of preview portal like a slide show which pans and zooms through full artworks. Also, while it's important to have 'art' right up front, I think you need to get across more blatantly on the main page that a comic is in progress there. Oh, I see. You do in fact have a link to the most appropriate comic page exactly where I thought one should be. The only problem (which my site suffers from too, and I never thought about it till now), is that because the left index panel is indeed a seperate scrolling panel, someone who habitually scrolls down the page via wheel or page-down key will only scroll down your main frame, and never see the lower portion of your index. I suppose it's not worth combining the frames into one scroll though, unless the right-most panel stays the same, which does appear to be the case until someone outright switches pages.
I see the tabs clearly load as seperate pages. Actually I do recall finding it funny that the pixel art tab of all pages takes longest to load. I suppose it has more files, thus more packet header overhead, in spite of smaller file sizes.
Your phrases like 'fan-art' and 'history' are well chosen to make the place look really professionally established.
Nice fonts too.
I was just thinking some days ago that it would be nice to see the Stay-puffed marshmallow kiwi logo animated some day, like waddling and hopping along.
There's still plenty of room for details like mouseovers, like over the names for instance (maybe change to red). Also, if one mouses over the comics on the left index, you could click them immediately through to where you do now, but if they over a moment, a floating-div will give click options like 'recent AtlantisU, start aU, humans index.
Oh, theres room for more background code too', like a goto Page#, and background preloader. Those are a huge untrustworthy hassle though, so better people just wait for the avatars to load when they get there.
There are typos on your first message about reporting errors though. C was wondering if you did them on purpose to to make the point.
I was just wondering what you'd charge for making this sort of site. Your comission page could be a tad more specific, for instance "A site like this one, consisting entirely of your own artwork except for buttons and a logo would likely run between $xxx and $xxx. Single main-page index sites with one folder of links start at $xxx."
C, Jeff, and I all think your prices are rediculously low. Consider that if they are too low, people won't take you seriously. Better to sell a set of emoticons for $60 and leave them wanting more art later.
Your prices are for fellow college students who can't afford anything. That's sweet, but your real customers are going to be businesses who make enough money with their sites to get $40k business loans and cover payroll.
Figure it like this, you are awesomely talented, and for things you are just as competent at as anyone else (and I dare say that if a client requests squid-motif buttons and emoticons, that you are just as skilled as anyone on the market to deliver), they need to pay you a pro starting salary, say $40k, that's $20/hr doing 9-5, BUT, you have to factor in that in this line of work you aren't finding work to fill every 9-5 hour, you'll be lucky to find three, so you'll have to charge $60/hr to make $40k, which you rightfully deserve if you stay focused. I can't imagine any creative professional set of emoticons is going to take less than an hour including your phone and imagination time, probably more like four hours, and thats NOT factoring in total down-time, that makes a set of original emoticons worth between $80 and $240, not freakin $10. Those are the prices I would expect to pay for a professional set of web emoticons on the market even if I hadn't just done a cost analysis.
Not only are you good, you are quick, that easily makes your time worth $60/hour in direct billing for pen and call time. If someone gives you a large project, say more than five weeks, then you can drop down to your lowest billing of $20/hr (but that still must include billing for estimates and discussions).
If you could work quickly in any style, say art-noveau or victorian etching, and had a client reputation, you could be charging around $240/hr (but you still aren't there yet, and are lucky even if you never get there).
Oh, one more page I can suggest, a 'style' gallery within your comissions page. That's probably more important than all the site suggestions above.
The next thing I might do, is make some business cards and make a single page color ad to send to businesses. The only problem with your site now, besides the slow comic progress, is that (judging by the forum, you lack visitors).
Hey, another thought, slightly cheesy, but something that could still come off as professional and within reason, since you already open new pages, automatically (just once) open a new page with your commissions page when the site initially loads, or have a floating-div mention commissions every dozen page clicks.
I just thought of a great potential client base for you, web-designers. Undoubtedly there are tons of them out there with hacking skills for making shopping-cart databases, with no sense of layout or art skills at all. You can make an ad to send out to them, suggesting that instead of them getting $1000 per website, that $1000 of your work will give them a site they can charge $4000 for.
Likewise there are a lot of cheesy shareware apps you could write to with a similar redecorating overhaul offer, because the only thing really seperating them from a costly product is that they 'look' cheesy and lack a classy web sales site.
I know it's a far stretch from manga, but except for putting in some years at someone else's studio, that's a not so immediate yielding route, income-wise. Alas, though I have plenty of work in mind for you, I can't pay you upfront on anything (except maybe a large set of those button/emoticons at those absurdly low prices).
You might divide your comissions page in to two sections, business and personal, that way it doesn't look too strange to be selling Valentines for $20 while selling site emoticons for $200. You might thow in a line "Personal work may be delayed/prempted depending on business contract load" to imply that there really is a tangible professional distinction between business and personal services.
As far as ads on your site go, do the math (your visitor count). It may not be worth appearing to run a 'free-server/rent-a-site', even if you only catch one professional ($60/hr, 3 Week) client.
Oh, sorry, but I think you should remove the line "I've been paid in video games before!". Barter is income in the eyes of the IRS, and you don't want to make potentially implicitly legal reference to already having had income when you haven't yet. The IRS, when lacking ledgers, has been known to estimate peoples incomes depending on what people with their potential could be making, sometimes when they've actually made nothing. I bet have tons of junk about barter on my site still (which people warned me about, without giving any good reasons). I so need to refurbish that site, but I don't NEED any of it for my work agenda, so it will just have to remain a diary archive and I'll just create other alterantive topical sites when the need arises.
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Post by Nixie on Jan 21, 2008 17:23:00 GMT -5
Tab loading... Well, I actually didn't mess with any kind of preloading. Every page is just HTML and CSS with a flash movie for the navigation tabs. That means, yes, I have a different flash file for every main page just so the page you're on has a darker blue tab. I couldn't get it to work any other way except the Spry Tabbed browser, which would've prevented me from linking directly to pages like commissions and comics.
What are you suggesting- something like, if I roll my mouse over a thumbnail I get to see a larger thumbnail pop up? Or maybe an extra sidebar that shows larger thumbnails as well? I can't really do a full-size slideshow, because some of the works are larger than the average screen, especially Alex and Foxy's stuff.
I was considering changing the way I do character info sections on comics, where if you roll your mouse over a black and white image of the character you get to see them in color and with a description floating over their heads. Something like that would also be best done in Flash.
I should probably use a different way to link to the main feature of the site than that little Atlantis U flash ad. That was a class assignment, actually, and I'd decided to stick it in just for personal promotion. I could probably do a better flash that made it more obvious there was a link to a worthwhile comic there, and I could probably add little things like... "See also: Brotherhood by Alex THVK and Kiwi-chan's art gallery!" which would not only be links, but change the preview image from Atlantis U to Brotherhood or a mini-slideshow of my art. That was part of my original plan for the home page, but I haven't had time to make this Flash thing yet.
My prices are low because, so far, anybody that's actually wanted my work couldn't afford it. Serin and Angel are the only ones who've paid me for art. Well, perhaps a few prices could stand to go up, but still...
... Huh. Maybe I should remove the video game line, then.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jan 21, 2008 21:24:03 GMT -5
Ah, you lack a tactic for slide-shows: You have the urls, dimensions, and titles for each item, and so if it's a 1024*768 desktop cruising past, you set it's display dimensions in the array to 512*384 or less.
For the thumbnails, I meant that if you mouseover one of those vertical slices in which you barely make out if you've seen it before, a div will hover over the page (to the page center side of the mouse) displaying, yes, a larger complete thumbnail. Both Netflix and eBay do this now in certain browsing views. I'm sure it's a lot of code though. I'm just saying that that's the icing on the cake which would put your site on the same level as those billion dollar sites, appearance-wise.
Now that browsers support floating divs better, I wouldn't waste screen space with a dedicated thumbnail display, unless it was one and the same as a main-page slide-show (now that's not such a bad idea, since both could share the same code.)
Your character info page would look really cool.You mean a grayscale group portrait? Ya know, you don't have to use Flash for that; the mouseover (either map, sliced-table, or best, a mouseover xy method for the whole portrait) could trigger visibility of a hovering transparent gif which colors the one character, and resets the url for a character description frame.
Iwas thinking your index-panel comic link could use improvement, maybe with some gold-solar ring seal over the comic with the text "New page!" - something that made it looked more like a ad link to some entire comic gig, and not just a link to a page of art under the comic header.
Here's an idea; Advertise your personal commissions only on the forum. Businesses looking for a graphics contract won't have time to read your forum anyhow.
I could sed you my slideshow code, but it's riddled with elaborate preloading code in disrepair. Better to just search for "javascript slideshow array dimensions". The basic code is a mere paragraph. To combine that with thumbnails, just give each thumbnail code like onclick="slideshowGoto(7)". Otherwise you'll just have a timer with code: x=x+1, if x>max x=0, slideshowGoto(x). slideshowGoto(x) will basically contain showImage.source = slideArray[x,0], showImage.width = slideArray[x,1], showImage.height = slideArray[x,2], imageTitle.text = slideArray[x,3]. The timer code is the screwiest part of a slideshow. You have to have code where the last step after switching slides s to launch a new instance of the very same slideTimer, to do it all again. There is no repeatEveryXSeconds command in js.
Visitor. I'll get back to you.
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Post by Nixie on Jan 21, 2008 21:44:14 GMT -5
I really don't care for that kind of slideshow, though. And frankly, these things ARE easier to do in Flash these days than Javascript.
Not everyone I'd do personal commissions for is on the forum. I'm at a LOT of other websites.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jan 21, 2008 22:58:49 GMT -5
Ok, just had a clean productive business meeting. Partner looks like he's going for a 20% sales commission, with no liability or code involvement at all. Chances are, in 3-4 months you will be offered the job of graphically refurbishing an app for 40-400 colleges at $100 per client to match their campus graphics.
~ ~ ~
Well then, advertise on those forums too. I'm just saying don't put up $10 portrait offers on your primary site where businesses are looking at your rate card.
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Post by Tenjen on Jan 22, 2008 7:09:49 GMT -5
lovely new layout. Much more accesible. Though a hit counter seems to be missing. Any intention for that comments thing that was there before?
that mermaid look is freaky. In a nice way. Its the eyes mostly.
Might want to buff up the Fan Art | History | Quotes | Links | Forum thing though.
maybe add a glassy background to the interior windows [retaining the same colors though] rather than just plain.
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Post by Nixie on Jan 22, 2008 15:06:23 GMT -5
See, somebody else likes hit counters!
No, the typos before were NOT intentional. The home page was the last page I finished, past midnight, before posting the whole thing.
Interior windows? You mean the lighter blue boxes? I'm afraid I can only apply one background image per tag, and I think it's easier to read like this.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jan 22, 2008 19:39:04 GMT -5
I'd be interested in knowing the most intense or decorative uses of CSS, besides just applying a color/font-style. if any.
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