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Post by Nixie on Jun 27, 2009 19:14:21 GMT -5
I'm not putting anything underneath the basket, especially not a cylinder like the tent. That'll only make the basket wobble worse. No, the tent will be strapped to the back of the basket. There are about two inches of rack leftover behind the basket, which will help support the tent, though the straps and bungee should hold it in place. My only packing question is now the sleeping bag. I can't put it on the front basket without it getting in my face (I tried) and I don't want to put it on top of the basket, that's just too much height... I'll figure it out when I get to it.
After trying the basket with panniers on it, it seems that the panniers keep the basket from wobbling even the slightest bit.
I no longer have heel-biting problems with my panniers. The new rack I got fits my bike properly. The other one had to be jury-rigged.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jun 27, 2009 20:01:55 GMT -5
Yay, I think I can make my luggage rack from a backpack frame, my supply of lawnchair legs, and hose clamps in under an hour, most of which is getting angle-aluminum out of storage for the foot.
Strap the tent with vecro and it's no wobblier below than above. If it is wobbly inside it's own case, then the lower the better. Behind the basket is perfectly good too though.
Height isn't a problem, just high weight. I think you will find that 90% of bike campers put their sleeping bag centered above the rear rack, and the other 10% center it over their front rack or strap it to the handlebar.
Oh, you got a new rack too. Good. Sorry I never had time to find the patches. I looked in the house and quickly through storage, so it must be in some obscure part of storage.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jun 29, 2009 0:25:12 GMT -5
You'll probably be gone before I can ever send it up, but I got a thrift store purse to put velcro straps on. I figure it's roughly within your tastes, black with a brown leather strip and red pitstripe. Your distance between tubes would still be helpful.
If you have a contemporary bike that saves weight/costs by not having cable shielding, but need to wrap things around frame tubes, you can get nylon or teflon tubing and slice it down the side as cable shrouding under strapped and taped things, maybe under zip-ties too (if taped), though not under hose clamps or c-clamps.
What kind of food ya bringing?
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Post by Nixie on Jun 29, 2009 0:51:47 GMT -5
Um. No thank you to the purse.
I have to rethink my packing because Mark finally told me that he won't be able to go. I have to either find a new travel companion or get a trailor so I can carry the stuff. As it is, my bike is totally laden down, and I'm not even carrying tools or food on it right now.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jun 29, 2009 6:29:14 GMT -5
My intuition was telling me yesterday he wouldn't be going.
Now that I've figured out a rack method, I can send that trailer if you want.
Two things though, complete at least an overnight camping trip first, and keep in mind, it's still more weight and resistance. Sure, you can just use lower gears and go slower, but 10% more weight means 10% less mileage per day. From what I've heard thus far, you're carrying half of what I carried without a trailer.
I must say though, with as much weight as I carried, I had to throw out my leg to the side like a ballerina to correct my balance. Tipping my head to the side was quite insufficient.
If you're wondering about a deck of cards, I can't imagine how you must be filling up your luggage.
Oh right, now I recall my setup.
On the seat I had tubes. On the frame I had water, motion alarm, & stove. [today I would add tools] On the front fork I had bike lock and rack. On the sides of front rack I had clip on bags mostly full of clothes, munchies, two heavy 35mm cameras, and trip findings. On top of the front rack I had a tackle case full of hardware, many many tools, and all sorts of cosmetics, art, office, and gypsy supplies, oh and things like fishing gear. In the rear panniers I had cooking gear, main meal food, medical, electronics parts and batteries, tape, straps, toiletries, etc etc. On top of the rack I had a drawing pad, and tarps. On top of that I had a backpack containing clothes, tent, TP, luggage straps, CD's and dozens of pantone Trio parkers. On top of that was the sleeping bag. On top of that I had a sun hat. Eventually I had a driftwood rabbit on the handlebars.
I'm sure it was twice, if not thrice what you are carrying.
Next time I will be adding guitars, amp, 15" speaker, computer, and a music studio, but I also plan to have various motors then too, and be using a tandem.
P.S, if you get another bike, for camping purposes, getting a tandem much increases your luggage capacity without resorting to a trailer.
Was Mark carrying things you hadn't mentioned?
Have a front rack and front panniers before resorting to a trailer. Those front racks for shock forks sold for like $8.
I have a lightweight duffle bag I can send which serves as the backpack minus all the useful sorting pockets (which alas, C. talked me into tossing.)
What do mean by laden down, no more room, or too heavy? If too heavy, the trailer's just going to make things worse, unless you have trouble balancing all that weight. {It's pretty much as light as trailers get though, except for that one 26" tire with fishnet saddlebags thing I once recommended. Those though lean with the bike and won't decrease your balance issue more than the trail-a-bike except that the weight is lower}.
Go do a medium-loaded overnight camping trip to Canada, and give yourself more time to think about how you'd really like to be packed for an excursion. You're as bad as me at making things into all-or-nothing now-or-never issues when they aren't.
Travelling alone means ditching the frying pan, and carrying both the tent and stove. Aside from that, I can't think of much weight saved. Things like soap just mean bring half as much. (Actually I'd still bring both pot and small frying pan).
Maybe post a notice at the local bike store looking for a companion novice bike camper. You can't be the only one in Bellingham. I say novice because a non-novice will have better gear, lighter packing experience, fitter muscles, and plan on twice if not thrice as many miles per day. They probably aren't planning on gypsy style either, and keep extras down to a camera. We all have to start somewhere.
I'm sure there are those who would be concerned about you being alone. The way I see it, there's not really much different from you being alone 5 miles from home or 1000. The moment you're 'living' on the road though (not just quickly passing through), the chances you will feel worth taking will increase considerably. You will take chances for a hot bath that you would not take in the streets of Bellingham. I took tons of pint sponge baths myself. I learned the art of pint showers living in the Mountains of Santa Cruz.
Travelling alone would be a deeper personal experience, but taking a friend would be much more fun. It means the difference between laughing or not. Otherwise you end up connecting with nature in a more buddhist/shaman way full of more awe than amusement. At least that's how it goes with me. Either one could be useful for you around now, so I wouldn't worry either way. Of the two though, I still recommend a friend. Do the overnight camping alone though and gather an opinion. You'd be in a much better position to help out a novice friend with gear rigging then too.
If I had gotten the purse frame-tool-bag for me, I would have chosen the blue-green denim instead. At least it was less than $3. I'm sure to send it to you in one form or another eventually anyhow. Black and red ain't my thing.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jun 29, 2009 21:41:24 GMT -5
I still heavily recommend simply heading out for four hours with a bag lunch and seeing how far you get.
To know how far you get, I recommend you get that odometer back. It was so cheap though that I can just order another if you don't mind waiting. You have two choices, either just use it in the rear as an odometer only, or make a clamp which fits around your wider shock, no big deal, although you may have to visit a hardware store since C. apparently doesn't save any used hardware for such purposes. Such a clamp could even be made from a plastic food container and a bolt & nut though.
Shall I order another, or will you get the one from M. back? You'll be needing one for a real trip anyhow.
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Post by Nixie on Jun 30, 2009 0:06:25 GMT -5
See the "How Was Your Day" thread for today's adventure. I'll probably be getting the bike computer back from Mark. I might've found a travel companion, but he has prior obligations and might not become available for 1-2 months. The height of the weight is the problem for me. I'm sure I have storage space for tools but not for food. Another problem is that the rear basket would have to be repositioned so my read wouldn't rub on it as I ride. If I do end up getting a different bike, I'll get an Xtracycle. It's like a tandem bike, only it was designed for carrying cargo instead of extra riders.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jun 30, 2009 2:49:52 GMT -5
What are you bringing for food?
Depending on your allergies, I'd recommend rice, beans, spaghetti, pancake mix, powdered falafel mixes, peanut butter, cheese, tuna packets, and most especially trail mix.
My food occupied about 1/3 of one of those panniers.
On the other hand those, dense as those foods are (though generally requiring water and oil) things like trail mix and cheese are superior because they require no cooking. Propane doesn't last all that long, so think of cooked food as always weighing a share of your propane as well.
A variety of low gears is even more important than a variety of high gears when loaded.
I once mentioned it's useful to know your derraileur equipment. If the hills were long, and you had a screwdriver handy, you could have adjusted a derraileur with a broken cable manually to support uphill or flat gears.
A sleeping bag against your rear probably isn't a problem.
Food should be dense, one of your bottom of the luggage items.
Xtracycle: Well, there pretty much goes another venture I had in mind eventually. Their design isn't much different than I had in mind. I hadn't thought of the extender for existing bikes though. I cant see, in four pages of products, something I thought I saw in the slideshow most similar to my idea, low side shelves that don't require panniers, something you could just bags of groceries on.
I have in mind a rear rack which accomprishes much the same thing though, a long rack with folding shelves below the axle, having a fabric wall to keep stuff in. For an extra long version, I had in mind a third wheel which swivels as trailing steering.
But yeah, until (if) I get in the business, this bike would be a good investment for you eventually.
If they were smart, they'd offer a motor. They might see that as unecological, but it still beats a car.
Decades ago tricycles were popular for shopping, and something inbetween trikes, rickshaws, and xtracycles is common in China as three-wheeled cargo platforms or side storage bike trucks. They may all be handmade there though.
Oakland, hmm, dense urban but near Santa Cruz / Berkeley hippie territory. I was thinking these guys might be in Tennessee or something.
Oh, there are the sheves, sold as the long-loader with the cargo-van kit. They also have the same sort of kickstand I envisioned for such a product.
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Post by Nixie on Jun 30, 2009 13:14:04 GMT -5
I had minute rice, pancake mix, some canned meats (since I'm allergic to nuts and Mark wouldn't eat fish), a few of those energy bars, spaghetti, eggs, and some dehydrated fruit.
Xtracycles do look seriously awesome. Even if I don't end up going on walkabout, that would be a good investment... if I could afford it.
It's starting to look like I'll have to find a new travel companion and spend the winter working while figuring out how to get two bikes fit for travel. That really REALLY blows.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jun 30, 2009 18:54:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree, even if you didn't go travelling. My similar plans were designed around people doing a full family's grocery shopping on a bike. However, I think my own rack is still even better. I've just been working on pricing parts, about $70 for aluminum tubing, and $35 for connectors. That doesn't include hinges, pannier support rods, shelves, or wheel, just the basic frame. I'm thinking to make us each one. I'd rather send you one of these than a trailer which looks great but is more of a drag to tow than one would expect. Still, it's handy for an emergency if I ever have to haul cats to the vet. Pins would suffice for the interbox hinge, nylon cord for hanging panniers on (adding tie-down loops would be handy though), shelves are only neccessary for hauling without panniers or hanging bags, so the only tough part is the front clamps and pivots, where I could just use conduit wall clamps on plywood if nothing more elegant showed up, and just used (back-pack frame) pins again between frame and grommet-reinforced hole in plywood. or, to save shipping, I could just send you up the hardware I collected and plans, and you get the sq. alum. tubing at a local hardware store and hacksaw the lengths yourself. Oh, and then there's the kickstand. That might require having the shelves, which just means getting 4-corner instead of 3-corner connectors, and getting more alum. framing. Oh, a rear axle skewer would be required to pass through the 1" tubes. Here are the connectors I would use: www.estoconnectors.com/nylon-connectors-for-aluminum-piping.html#One could still mount a huge light laundry basket on top, and put suitcases on the shelves (keeping in mind to balance and keep weight low). Cool as xtrabikes are, my system is still cheaper and as versatile. I might need to add diagonal wires, as used in steel shelving, to reduce pivoting stress on the corner connectors. Again, no big deal, just dinky long eyebolts and picture hanging wire. or I could use polyester straps with cinch buckles. One could use adhesive velcro for tail-lights, saddle-bags, and such. Interested? The system you have now though sounds sufficient for modest camping excursions. Mine would be more for carrying guitars, driftwood, or travelling sales inventory. Maybe a cot too. You half know how to get bikes together now. Sounds like you quickly found a travel companion too. I can hold off a couple months on getting a jewelry kiln (I have till fall classes) and work on this first instead. You've done a 40 miler. Try a weekend camping trip next. Learn how to repair your friend's derrraileur. It's something you should know on the road anyhow. If it's not repairable, find a Shimano on eBay with the same qty of speeds for $30. Write a calendar schedule. Don't wait another year. You're almost there. If your friend can't be ready by departure time, start looking for another companion now. The food list looked good. That didn't fit in your panniers? It's probably too late, but an alcohol or white gas stove (or even cans of sterno) probably has better energy density (heat per weight) than a propane stove. They are more of a mess though. Ooh, some of the alum. tubing at estoconnectors already comes with ridges appropriate for hanging panniers on (or for inserting foamboard or plywood panelling).
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Post by Nixie on Jul 1, 2009 1:13:52 GMT -5
Not really interested in your design, especially if it means hauling plywood SHELVES built into the bike. I've had enough problems with attaching things to the bike that weren't meant to be attached there.
This new travel companion... keeps having worse and worse problems and is less and less likely to be able to come with me. Right now, he's working to support his mother, not himself. And the derailleur isn't the worst of his bike's problems. He seriously needs to replace half his parts. The entire brake system, his chain, his gears, his derailleur, his tires. Honestly, the frame is probably the only good part of his bike.
The stove I have is a single burner white gas stove.
... Honestly, if this guy can't come with me, I'm stuck picking strangers from a bike club. It sucks.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jul 1, 2009 2:16:37 GMT -5
Not plywood shelves, aluminum framing shelves, with optional fabric stretched across them. Roughly what xtracycle gear looks like, but made with those modular angle connectors instead of bending tubing. On the other hand, I might use wood panel slipped into the top channels instead of wire bracing for the top, which would make it rather similar to xtracycle again with their skateboard top. Mine would be sharp and boxy though.
I'll make one for myself and show you photos. I swear it's a better plan than an xtracycle conversion at 1/4 the cost.
By shelves I only meant almost the identical thing as x-c offers in their long-board package, kind of like a running board on ancient cars, something to set surfboards or grocery bags on, or in my case fabric suitcases full of music gear.
Strangers from a bike club could be fun. Check the internet though. You might find a local biking artist. Actually personality is probably more important than profession anyhow.
I'm thinking the poor of LA may have it better off than the poor of Wash. The $10 Goodwill bicycles here sound better than what your friends have.
My neighbor gals both have decent bikes that they haven't ridden once since they moved here a year ago.
If you wait a couple of months, I could join you, but I can't go on true walkabout again. I have cats to take care of. {It did dawn on me though that I could put the enclosed kiddie trailer behind the alum-frame saddlebag trailer to bring them along, but they'd hate me for it.}
After I make myself such a trailer, the only reason I'd have to keep the current trailer is cat hauling, which is rather unlikely. Since I figured you'd be better off with my own design as well, I was thinking I might sell the Trek trailer to finance making the new trailers. The only advantage to the Trek, besides being enclosed without a need for luggage, is that it stands on it's own better, being wide and low and two wheeled. Two small wheels are more effort to tow though than one large wheel.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jul 2, 2009 18:18:49 GMT -5
[Response re: cards/drawing-pad in 'walkabout']
If I could bring a blank tarot deck, art diary, drawing pad, and dozens of marking pens on a bike, so can you. You're not also carrying 30 pounds of mechanic tools, jewerly supplies, or using propane. Your coat may be thicker though.
If you don't like my trailer design, I guess I can send you the Trek kiddie trailer instead. There would be a wait on that for me to at least make myself a replacement trailer first, and for you you to get in some non-trailer camping experience first.
Did you ever transfer things like nail polish remover and shampoo to 3oz or 6oz bottles?
I would think the only thing holding you up by now is getting a travel companion.
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Post by Nixie on Jul 2, 2009 20:15:13 GMT -5
Nail polish remover?? Shampoo?? Not bringing EITHER of those. No makeup, no nailpolish, no shampoo or conditioner, no razor or shaving cream, just soap and a washcloth and my allergy meds and toothbrushing stuff. Largest containers are the ones for white gas (for the stove) and my 3 oz dishsoap.
Your bike is a tandem with room to carry things in the frame. Mine is not. Everything I carry must fit in two little panniers, a lot basket, and (possible) a front basket. That includes hygiene, first aid, clothes, tools, food, cookware.
.......
After watching UP, I'm feeling much more inclined to just go anyway, without a travel companion.
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Post by Kristal Rose on Jul 2, 2009 21:48:17 GMT -5
I've always been referring to things I carried on my Trek, not my tandem.
It sounds like the primary differeces between our setup are as follows:
I mounted things to the frame. I had front bags on the front rack (mostly coats). I had a tackle box attached to both front rack and handlebar. I had things like a drawing pad, tarps, tent, and sleeping bag above my panniers. I had a backpack full of stuff (clothes and art supplies) above the panniers.
So basically I had two bags, a backpack, a tackle box, and secured storage more than you.
This is all stuff you could do as well at hardly any expense, although the basket is rather in the way.
Particularly what I recommend to coming closest to what I had is:
Get a handlebar bag (for my tackle box items). Get a front rack and mount either bags, tackle boxes, panniers, or at least put your tent and sleeping bag on it. Mount things to your frame as well, especially heavy stuff like tools (I got a purse to make you a tool bag, but you declined for reasons unknown). Get a duffle bag for TP and clothes which straps on or behind your basket.
To rephrase my setup, all my 'things' were in the panniers or tackle box (your baskets might do). Clothes were in front bags or above panniers (a duffle bag would work). Gear was all secured elsewhere to the bike. It's not that complicated, and doesn't require a tandem or trailer.
I don't know anything at all about Up, but it appeared when I was working on solar paraglider excursion plans.
Yeah, go alone if nothing else. You're going to be pretty depressed if you don't.
I once emailed you a list of stuff you should have no problem carying on a bike. Get a duffle bag for your clothes and the list should fit in those panniers.
I miniaturised everything. Nothing was in it's original packaging.
My main regret was carrying along a tarp, stove-shield, and rain poncho I never used. I used everything else I brought along.
First aid - your largest item should be some gauze, that tape, a tube of antibiotic the size of your pinky, and a medium vanilla-extract bottle of hydrogen peroxide.
What do you have in your cooking pan? That could store all your powdered cooking goods or two pairs of pants.
Try not to 'store' food reserves. The more you can use up food and resupply as you go along, the lighter you will travel. Tortillas are likely to be your primary precooked bread product unless you have spare floppy storage in the rear basket or in front bags. Avoid more than a half weeks supply of anything if you can. Unfortunately that could be rather expensive unless you barter with other campers to split goods during their grocery trips.
As far as I can tell you're carrying as much as a typical backpacker. A typical bike camper should be able to carry three times as much if they want, though it's not advisable, especially since there will be stores and people on the way.
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